Emily Washcovick: We’re good to go.
Cliff Cate: Awesome. There’s the beautiful photos. Okay. Thanks, Emily. Well, hello. My name’s Cliff Cate and I’m head of customer success here at Yelp Restaurants. And I have an opportunity to hear from our restaurant partners on a daily basis. I hear their challenges and frustrations, particularly in 2020, but I also hear many success stories. And those success stories are continuing to grow as we’re getting smarter of surviving and thriving during this pandemic. And with what’s undoubtedly been the most challenging year ever for restaurants in 2020, it’s these success stories that I find so inspiring. I’m constantly reminded that restaurant owners and operators are some of the most resilient, resourceful, and creative people in the business.
Cliff Cate: So today, I’m joined by two of those people, Jet Tila and Josh Kopel. Jet, Josh, thanks for joining us. Do you want to let everyone know a little bit about who you are and what you do? Jet, maybe we start with you.
Jet Tila: Yeah, sure. Good afternoon, operators, friends. I’m Jet Tila. 25 years in the industry. My parents actually started Thai food in the ’60s in the States. Went off … I’m going to give you the very Cliffs Notes so I’m not wasting anyone’s time. French culinary school, Japanese culinary school. I’ve operated within fine dining, casual dining, hotel, casinos, B&I, C&U, college/university, business and institutions. So I currently also do medias, so a few shows on Food Network, and also have a partnership in Pei Wei Group, which is 130 restaurants around the country. So this is a very, very short bio, basically.
Cliff Cate: Impressive. And Josh.
Josh Kopel: Hi, I’m Josh Kopel. I was based out of Los Angeles. I’m the host of the Full Comp Podcast. And prior to COVID, I was a Michelin-rated restaurateur. I, like so many other people, lost my restaurant. And it came as a surprise to me, like it did to so many other people. That inspired me to start asking questions from people that I thought were much smarter than me and far more successful than me. That is what led me to Chef Jet and that’s what led initially to the Full Comp Podcast and everything that’s come after. So I’m excited to be here to share and to learn, as well.
Cliff Cate: Awesome. Yeah. And that podcast, you can obviously find it wherever you listen to podcasts, but the interview with Jet was awesome. So let’s dive into … We’ve got probably about a half dozen questions that were pre-submitted. And let’s go through these. So this first question is, how do you suggest I break through the crowd when everyone’s trying the same thing? We’ve all heard about the pivot to takeout, the pivot to delivery, meal kits, et cetera. So this is a great question. I hear this all the time. How do you really stand out in this environment? Jet, you want to start? You’re on mute. There we go.
Jet Tila: Unmuted now, so I’ll take a stab at it. Yeah. Look, I think the key is differentiation. How do you do it? I think there’s a few different modalities. Obviously, your brand. Right? What do you do? How do you do it? I also always look at who’s my competitive set and, within that, certain criteria. How am I breaking out? Where’s my food? What’s the public perception of my business and is there any way I can bolster that? Those are the beginning points for me.
Jet Tila: And I think there’s a lot of free tools out there that I think we’re going to touch on later, as well, but you differentiate by all the things I talked about; who am I, am I doing it better, am I doing it differently, are people noticing that I’m doing it differently and, if I’m doing it differently, how do I get the word out? Those are some of the first kind of things that come to mind when I see questions like this. We can go back and forth with Josh and I could fill in, but I want to keep it nice and concise.
Jet Tila: And those of you that are out there, if you have any questions, the chat really is a great place to put it because we will slide it in because, if it’s in the chat, we can get to it.
Cliff Cate: Josh, anything you’d add there?
Josh Kopel: I would love to. Having the opportunity to talk to hundreds of restaurateurs over the last eight months, what I would say the key differentiator has less to do with offering and more to do with their ability to communicate with their guests. The people that spent years prior to the pandemic acquiring emails lists, nurturing their social media relationships, those are the people that have been able to turn to their guests and the people that know them and trust them and they’ve been able to capitalize on those relationships. The customers are able to tell them what they want and what they need. And they’re able to turn to their customers and say, candidly, “Hey, if you want us to stay in business, this is what we’re doing. If it resonates with you, help us out.” Jet, you have done a phenomenal job with that throughout your career.
Jet Tila: Yeah. I’m going to lean into carryout delivery meal kits. I think those are examples also of gaps. Right? Non-traditional outlets for your product, for your food. Productions are back. Right? We’re not going to get political. We’re not going to get crazy, but productions are essential. There’s a lot of catering opportunity for movie sets. I currently am responsible for the NBC Universal lot. I also do a lot of Food Network productions. So it’s about building relationships, at the end of the day. Find out what production companies are in, that [inaudible 00:06:02] that are shooting. Reach out, but it’s that time where we have to get crafty. Most of us are entrepreneurs and it’s about thinking outside the box to find where the gaps are that other people aren’t seeing right now.
Jet Tila: But to Josh’s point, your business has to have a personality. And if you are that person within your business, then you need to be constantly reaching out and building bridges. Again, I don’t want to beat one slide to death. It’s easy to do so [inaudible 00:06:30] these things. Punch in your comments or concerns in the chat [inaudible 00:06:35], if you want.
Cliff Cate: Yeah, that’s great. So differentiate. And one of the big ways to do that, from what I’m hearing and what I’ve also seen, is through being a human, humanizing it, showing your personality. Those are all really great tips. Okay. So let’s get onto the next question. We’ll switch the slide here. So this question; apart from the craziness during the pandemic of trying to stay open, be open, open, close, open during the pandemic, what would be the most efficient way to market during this time?
Jet Tila: Cliff, I’m going to go back to what you just said because you hit a nerve. I mean, being human. This is the time to show vulnerability and tell your story. And I think there are such great outlets that tie right into this slide, actually. Look, we all cannot deny the clout that social media following builds. And I think that, if we’re not using the free tools out there that just cost time, you know what I mean, then we’re specifically … I mean, understanding social media by its demographics, knowing that Facebook is … I don’t know. Again, I’m sure the Yelp … between Cliff and Stephen and Josh, but I look at Facebook as my aunt and my mom and my grandmother’s generation. They are spenders, if your offering tailors to them. I know Instagram is kind of that middle bucket; late teens to 30s, maybe 40s, but they’re starting to jump on there, and Twitter.
Jet Tila: So between those three primaries, I don’t really touch TikTok, myself, because I don’t understand how to convert that yet, convert the viewer to become a spender, but I spend most of my time between, on social, anyway, Facebook, Instagram. And interaction is key, by the way, guys. When you have people comment, I can’t tell you how important spending 10 seconds messaging back somebody creates a bond and makes them feel like, “They took the time to reply to me, I want to help.” So there’s just some of the initial things. Josh?
Josh Kopel: Yeah. I’d love to build off that. So we are transitioning as an industry out of this marketing era and into an engagement era. Those of us that have had the good fortune of doing well in this industry did so by convincing patrons to give us money, not to give money to our businesses. I owned a bar in Hollywood, 14 years. And we were known for two things, good times and bad food. Especially during the winter months, I was always amazed at how many people would come to the bar to eat dinner because I knew how mediocre the food was. And when I would ask, “Hey, what brought you in on a Wednesday at 5 p.m. to eat this food?” they would always say, “We want to make sure that you’re going to be here next football season. We want to make sure that you’re able to weather the winter and come back next summer.”
Josh Kopel: And so we do such a good job within our four walls of telling the stories of our lives. And I think that the best way to market is to engage and to tell those stories that we tell the patrons that are sitting in our restaurants or our bars to tell those stories online so that they’ll resonate with the masses.
Cliff Cate: That’s great. I’d add one thing. This concept of hospitality that all restaurants need to do well and it’s really what drives a lot of restaurant operators to get in the business, is this hospitality piece. And you don’t have that hospitality in person, in most cases today, or it’s very limited or there’s somebody behind a mask. So this concept of digital hospitality is super important and that’s where these alternative channels come in, like Instagram. And so to Jet’s point, engage. Use it as a way of engaging. Think about the hospitality you do in the four walls of a restaurant and can you extend that into Instagram by replying to comments, liking comments? So those are all great tips.
Jet Tila: Cliff, I’m going to riff off you again one more time. I mean, I think there is an over … not arching, but there has become a modern belief that service is going away. Right? Service is becoming less personal. I mean, I’m in my mid 40s and I feel like I’m that last of that generation who’s worked for those really big guys that really believed in, hey, within six feet, look in someone’s eyeballs and shake their hand. Give them a greet. Say thank you, “Please, can I put you on hold?”
Jet Tila: It’s these little psychological … the intangibles or the tangibles, but if you can convey a sense of service and creating experience even in these small ways, like responding to people’s comments, how you reach out, the story that you tell, but again I think we’re going to get into this, as well, but your reputation could trigger the first buy. And that’s why your reviews, all that, you’ve got to keep everything tiptop. If someone has a negative experience, get in and engage in a very friendly way and say, “Look, I’m sorry that happened to you. What can we do to fix it?” or, if it’s someone that is not reasonable, tell your story in return in a very cordial way. All these things matter. I believe they really do.
Cliff Cate: Yeah. [crosstalk 00:12:29].
Josh Kopel: Can I riff of Jet one more time?
Cliff Cate: Of course.
Josh Kopel: Because I think that the way you do business, especially the way you do business online, it’s such a great model for other people. This last Thanksgiving, despite all of the horrors that we’ve seen this year, was an amazing Thanksgiving for me because I looked like a golden god when I carved that turkey. And I did it because Jet showed me, step by step, how to do it online. And he wasn’t selling turkeys or selling the knife that he used to cut the turkey or the stuffing. He was providing value. And there’s a huge lesson to take from that because what I’ve seen Chef Jet do, time and time again, is provide value with no expectation of getting anything in return. And in providing that value, his audience has paid him back, I mean, huge, I am sure.
Jet Tila: I hope that helps on that. You’re very kind, Josh. You’re making me blush, brother, but you’re absolutely right. I mean, it is providing value. We talk about it as business operators; what is the added value? What are those perceptions of value? All these things really convert to sales and convert loyalty.
Cliff Cate: Yep. And nothing against you, Jet, you don’t need to be a celebrity chef to do this either, by any means.
Jet Tila: Right. And going off that, Cliff, it’s almost a detriment to be part of the populous.
Cliff Cate: Yep.
Jet Tila: You are fortunate enough to have a business and a community. Do not overlook NextDoor and these apps. Do not overlook community-based outreach because you are pulling on these heartstrings that support you. I get pushback because I’m a populous now and I’m on national television. I’m a sellout. So use what works for you.
Cliff Cate: Yeah. That’s great advice. So this should be a fun question, I think. What are the new food trends that you see that have adapted well during this time?
Jet Tila: Great. And Christian and Justin, we do see your questions. I’m going to preload … Cliff, Josh, Stephen, we should be thinking about … people are asking … I think those [inaudible 00:14:51] are going to come up and I think we should talk about those. Food trends that adapted well to COVID. Anybody who has established a reputation for takeout, portability, and understanding how to handle that kind of business pre-COVID is thriving. And I’m only going to give my opinion from my point of view. I’m not going to assume anything. From my point of view, nationally, the people that I’ve known who are quicker service … It doesn’t mean quicker dining. It doesn’t have to be burgers and fries. The sushi operators, the Thai food operators, the Latin operators that are mid to nice food that still have really mastered fast ordering, online ordering, and very, very efficient and well-done takeout, that, overall, I think is a trend that’s going to transcend COVID and continue. And those guys are thriving.
Jet Tila: Food trends, we’ll go for it. Look, spicy, no matter what, because gen Z now is getting older and they’re starting to have money to start creating transactions. Give me the millennials now are in their 30s and 40s. Ethnic is not ethnic anymore. Plant-based will continue. Food is medicine, fermentation. I’m not going to write a dissertation. Josh, go for it. Cliff, go for it.
Josh Kopel: So the two trends that I see, to nerd out … One is a much higher price point. So people are actually dining at home. It’s not about the utilitarian act of eating. People will spend $50, as a per-customer average, on takeout and delivery meals because they actually want that dining experience. And the more value you can add to that, the better off you’ll be.
Josh Kopel: Another big trend I’ve seen is par-cooked food, this pseudo catering-esque, large format where you throw it in the over when you get home for 20 minutes and it’s fresh out the oven. It’s as good as it could possibly be, all things considered. I’ve seen that do really well. Also, to build off what Jet said, the concepts that I’ve seen do incredibly well with delivery and takeout are the concepts that have embraced it as an opportunity. They’re the people that aren’t using it as a function of survival. They’re saying, “We do food and we do people really well. Let’s find the intersection of that with takeout and delivery and let’s create a really memorable moment for the people that are ordering from us.” Those are the folks that you’re seeing that are doing world-class work right now.
Cliff Cate: Yeah.
Jet Tila: Go ahead, Cliff. Sorry.
Cliff Cate: I was going to say, getting that kind of average check size up, alcohol, even branding some of your alcohol. I’ve seen great packaging now where that’s combined with a family-style meal. So you’re getting the check average up by just creating an item on the menu that’s for two or four people. Adding alcohol onto that’s going to, obviously, elevate the cost. And then there’s a local restaurant, which I love, which does your idea, Josh, the par-cooked meals. He accompanies all them with an Instagram story where he kind of gives you the story behind the meal and even a few tips on how to prepare it.
Jet Tila: Yeah. I mean, differentiation. Right? Because people can’t dine at home … Look, we’ve done $50, $80-check-average meals in-house, very particular … You can differentiate in packaging. Take swings. Take 10% of your menu or an opportunity to do something a little different because that might be the thing that makes it interesting. Like Cliff said, tie it back. If you already have a really great social media following, leverage that by saying, “Hey, guys. Next week, we’re doing XY. I’m going to do a tajine and this and that,” cook it on camera, make it real, create an expectation. I think there’s a lot of opportunity there.
Jet Tila: I’m going to interject, then, go ghost kitchens. Cliff, Josh, [inaudible 00:19:24] because we do have a question from one of our guests.
Cliff Cate: Great.
Jet Tila: Is that in the slide? Because, if not-
Cliff Cate: Yeah. We’ll get to those.
Jet Tila: [crosstalk 00:19:33].
Cliff Cate: But why don’t we go to the next question? Ghost kitchens question is the next one after this one. I like this question because now we’re starting to pick our head up a little bit and think about the future. So kind of top tools coming out of COVID to help survive and, I would even argue, grow and accelerate the growth. So any tools that you’re liking?
Jet Tila: Josh, you want to take this one first?
Josh Kopel: I’ll start high level. I think that, as restaurateurs, we’re all asking the same questions; what can I delegate, what do I no longer need to handle, and what should I be bringing in-house? The tools that I’m most excited about are the things that give us control of the customer service experience, end to end, and the things that are giving us the data that we need to be able to service our customers, as well as our customers’ data. There are a bunch of platforms out there that are enabling people to do in-house delivery, either through independent contractors or through utilizing their own staff. I think that those are going to be critical evolutions in the near term and in the long term.
Josh Kopel: And it’s also been great to see, when dine-in does reopen, things like Yelp’s wait list app because that is how people are going to want to dine in the near term.
Jet Tila: Yeah. I mean, one thing that’s going to carry over is getting your tech up, staying with QR-driven menus, staying with real time digital ordering. Any of those things that is going to create … The young people want that kind of fun tech experience. They want to be disturbed less. They want faster transactions. And all these things, I think, really hit top line, which give bottom line. I’ve survived three of these crazy either economic boom, bust, or crazy cycles. The pent-up demand is going to serve those that have survived. And usually, what happens out of these things is the efficiencies that you find will carry over. So we should use these lessons, as operators, to really thrive through post-COVID to make up for any of those losses in COVID, but this is definitely more of a … Young guy, like Josh, knows tools. I’m more of an old-school restaurateur.
Cliff Cate: What’s-
Josh Kopel: What I … Go ahead, Cliff.
Cliff Cate: I was going to say, what’s the expression? Don’t let a crisis go to waste? I mean, you’re seeing a lot of restaurants retooling. If you don’t have the ability to take orders directly from your website … If you don’t have a website, let’s start there, and then if you can’t take orders directly through your website, there’s a lot of great tools that allow you to do this and have control over it.
Jet Tila: Yeah. Do you guys want to get specific? Yeah, because that’s for sure. If you can’t take orders digitally, there’s a problem. Right? Yeah, and if you don’t have a social media presence, there’s another problem. These are the things you need to be tooling up for right now.
Josh Kopel: For sure. This is an amazing moment where we find that restaurateurs have never been more focused on innovation. And our patrons, for the first time in my lifetime, are more pliable than they have ever been, ever. They’re willing to do whatever needs to be done to make sure that independent restaurants not only survive, but thrive. And they’re willing to order in different ways and they’re willing to experience new ways of dining in your restaurant.
Josh Kopel: And now is a real opportunity for us to leverage these tech tools to overcome the biggest hurdle in the industry, which is labor and ever-increasing labor and figuring out new ways to do business and trying new things because, once the world gets back to work, there’s going to be a gold rush. You’re looking at a 40% to 60% permanent closure rate. And once demand goes back up to 100% once the vaccine is widely distributed, you’re going to have 100+% of the demand and only 40% to 60% of the market to facilitate that demand. So people are going to be busy and they need to be efficient.
Jet Tila: Yeah. Right now, to get a little granular, most F&B operations are broken up into different categories. So some of your revenue is going to be … Dine-in’s shot, for most of us. We’ve switched over to takeout. Some people also have special events and catering. Again, yeah, you’ve got to tighten your belt in the places where there’s just no opportunity and jettison those and really push into what’s available, but as we get out, we’ve got to start getting ahead of the curve and building out all those other rev streams or parts of your business and start soliciting special events because, again, that pent-up demand isn’t just going to be in dining. It’s going to be in catering. It’s going to be in a lot of different facets.
Cliff Cate: Yeah. I think the pivot or the diversity in revenue streams that restaurants have had to find to survive, mainly takeout and delivery, once we get through the pandemic, I think it’s known that we’re not going back to the old normal. A lot of the changes that restaurants had to make to survive and thrive during this period are going to continue. Takeout’s here to stay. So investing those tools now is going to help you not only survive, but will be the platform which you’re going to accelerate, coming out of this.
Josh Kopel: And a great life lesson that we talked about on our interview, Jet, was when you talked about Schwan’s and you talked about how you were willing to take a much smaller cut to not have to deal with any of it. And so when we talk about diversifying revenue streams, we should all be looking for opportunities where it’s a very light lift on our end, but there is the opportunity for brand expansion, there is the opportunity for an additional revenue stream. And there’s no need to get greedy with it because, as you evolve from a singular concept into a full-fledged brand, it is ever expansive and ever widening. It’s something you have done incredibly well.
Jet Tila: Thanks, man. Again, you’re making me blush. Those of you that do have a combination of a decent social media following and high engagement, one of the things that we’ve pivoted on in the last eight months is creating these … So this goes to par-cook, this goes to social, but having online finishing cooking classes. Right? If you took 20 to 40 to 50 covers, created a par meal, but then everyone Zoomed back with you at 6 p.m. and you finish this meal, you create this small, little cooking class because, at the end of the day, more people are cooking and restaurants should take advantage of that, as well, not just delivering or providing finished product, but you can differentiate in creating a par-cooked product that’s still they’re using you versus a service or a store or a hot bar or whatever.
Cliff Cate: Yeah. That’s awesome. And you’re building your community as part of that experience.
Jet Tila: People want that.
Cliff Cate: Yeah. Let’s move on. I know there’s a lot of questions around ghost kitchens. So this next question, ultimately, is about ghost kitchens and virtual restaurants and kind of these new models that are coming on. When you guys look at the changing restaurant landscape, are brick and mortars going to exist? And then what’s the role of ghost kitchens and virtual kitchens as part of that?
Jet Tila: I feel like COVID is going to, unfortunately, take out 25 to 40 something, depending on where you are, percent of restaurants. So when we, pre-COVID, were looking at the decline of brick and mortar, I almost see it as potentially coming back because of the pent-up demand coupled with the, unfortunately, the restaurants that aren’t going to make it. So I’m going to rejigger my bet to say those of you that do survive the pandemic, Q3, Q4 next year and into 2022, I think you’re going to see an increase in business. So if you are banking on brick and mortar, which I think still is stable coming out of the pandemic, you really need to concentrate on your fundamentals, sales square. Right? Really pushing that check average, really nailing service.
Jet Tila: On the other end, I do see suburbs becoming these new hubs. I think people are getting out of … I only speak from Los Angeles, but I think that applies to a lot of major cities. Not being political, but when we start to see a shift in defunding police and increase in crime and homelessness, you’re going to see populations go from city to suburb. I mean, that’s backed up with facts. So if you’re a restaurateur, I think you start to target … be it brick and mortar or ghost kitchens, I see a lot of opportunities going on with the suburbs in these next five years. Go ahead, Josh. Sorry.
Josh Kopel: I would say I’m very bullish on both, but I love the idea of a new brick and mortar. I think that there’s going to be an evolution in the concept and in the way restaurateurs think about brick and mortars. My business plan for Preux & Proper wasn’t a one-pager. It was a two-liner. It was we’re going to open, people are going to come in and eat, and hopefully they’ll leave quick. And that was it. That’s what we all did, but now you’re looking at farmers market boxes, and takeout and delivery, and par-cooked catering. And I think you’re going to see a more evolved experiential event when people go to restaurants. They’re going to come in. They’ll sit at the bar like they normally did. They might take a farmers market box on their way out the door, along with their to-go food. I think that there are so many opportunities to sell.
Josh Kopel: I think that these are going to become retail spaces where restaurateurs are going to begin to package their hot sauces and spices. We’re really going to become what we always thought we need permission to be, which is full-scale brands. And then you can take your favorite elements of that and sell those hot sauces in Whole Foods or create a ghost kitchen for the items that travel the best. I think that it can all start from that singular brick and mortar and you can become an expansive brand outside of that.
Josh Kopel: The reason I love brick and mortar so much and the reason I want to see them continue is because these are community tables. And in being seated at a community table, you never forget that the reason we all got into this was to service other people.
Jet Tila: Yeah. I’m going to piggyback there. So ghost kitchens, not super bullish in the near future because of just the logistics that it takes to try to combine four, six, 10 concepts in one; sharing kitchen space, sharing dry storage. I’ve been invited to do these. I’ve actually started to set these up. They’re not easy, but one thing I’m seeing is how are you utilizing your square footage in terms of time of day and in terms of offering, right? I’m seeing brick and mortars become ghost kitchens for a complementary business. Right? You have a nighttime dining brick and mortar, daytime underutilized, a bagel place sets up shop and they figure out a way to make it work.
Jet Tila: And I think there’s also a lot of synergies, to Josh’s point, of complementary brands. Is there a local bread person that can be using your shop as a place to feature? Maybe there’s a small percentage of that guest that knows the bread brand, but doesn’t know your brand. There’s some synergies that make your kitchen potentially a ghost kitchen. To Josh’s point, a retail store. With the regs changing with alcohol and takeout, there’s ways to leverage this, post-pandemic.
Cliff Cate: Yeah. I’ll quickly add two things. From a Yelp standpoint, it’s said a few times, we see the diner demand is there. If you recall, back in June when there was some exuberance about being able to go back out and eat, demand popped at restaurants. And it’s still going to be this pent-up demand, but I think what we’re all saying is you need to diversify. You can’t be a one-trick pony, as Josh’s restaurant was early on. You’ve got to think of all these other things. And obviously, not all the ideas are going to be right for you. Pick the ones that kind of play to your expertise and strength.
Jet Tila: Don’t be scared with [inaudible 00:33:13]. I mean, what’s the worst that can happen?
Cliff Cate: That is the money advice right now. It’s like be bold, don’t be afraid, get out there and try and learn. So let’s move on to the next question. So this one’s about seeing a lot of restaurants partner with other brands recently. We’ve actually kind of just touched on this in the last question. Anything else you’d want to add around independent restaurants exploring brand partnerships?
Jet Tila: Yeah. I think synergies are positive when they create a halo effect, firstly. Do they make sense with your brand? Are you doing it because it just feels good or are you doing it because it makes money? Because, the end of the day, we all have a finite amount of capacity. Don’t do shit that’s not going to be … You know what I mean? It should be a double win. It shouldn’t just be a single win. And I do think that most people are looking to feel good. So is it a community story? What are you offering that makes people want to participate and how does it make them feel? I’m always looking for at least two to three wins, if I’m going to do a partnership.
Cliff Cate: Yeah. It’s consistent with some of the other advice you gave. You’ve got to have a unique position in the partnership and, in a lot of ways, the best ones kind of are humanized. You’re selling your own story through it. Josh, anything you’d add?
Josh Kopel: No. I think you nailed it, Jet.
Cliff Cate: All right. Emily, we’ve got two more questions on the prepared side. I know you’ve been watching the questions as they’ve come in. What are your thoughts? Do you want to pluck off a few of the other questions or you want to-
Emily Washcovick: Yeah. I think we’ve answered the two first ones that came through. I’ll let you guys run on this question. I just wanted to make sure that everyone knew that it was the 40 mark, but let me tee one up while you guys are moving on to this second to last one we had queued for the group. Does that work?
Cliff Cate: Yeah. That’s great.
Jet Tila: Sure.
Emily Washcovick: Awesome.
Cliff Cate: So this question’s … online reputation. We’ve been touching on this, but how important is my restaurant’s online reputation to today’s unique business climate?
Jet Tila: Josh, you want to go? You want me to go? I’m happy either way.
Josh Kopel: Yeah. I mean, just real quick because I’m sure you have a lot more to add here, what I have seen, and this is a Yelp for Restaurants thing, I will say that your online reputation is an aggregate of what everybody says about you. You can disagree with it, you can not disagree with it, but I used to get so frustrated with Preux & Proper because we had four and a half stars on Yelp, but the reality is we’re a four-and-a-half-star restaurant and that’s only going to change when we have leveled up to become a five-star restaurant and we have done it for long enough that it’s resonated with the audience because, I can tell you, Bestia, who was right down the street from me, was always a five-star restaurant.
Josh Kopel: And so I think it’s incredibly important to take the criticism well and understand that any positive or negative feedback is the truth, as that person that wrote it sees it. And I think that that empowers you to do something about it.
Jet Tila: Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. As having multiple concepts that have online reviews, it is an aggregate, but if you start to see a pattern emerge, put aside your pride and truly open your mind to, potentially, there’s something you could do better, but yes, it is your reputation. I think the simple answer to this is it’s extremely important and you have to address it. And I will stress one more thing back is engagement. There’s opportunities online to reverse a negative experience. And I take a lot of time in just personally answering people. And just that little bit of attention can change their perception. And also, whoever’s reading that later on, you’ve created a halo effect for your restaurant. I don’t want to spend … yeah. [crosstalk 00:37:49].
Cliff Cate: I would just add, we, at Yelp, have surveyed consumers and diners across the country. At the moment, the number one thing that diners care about is trust, safety. And so you want to make sure that you’re getting your message out about how you’re taking this seriously, what your stance is on cleanliness and sanitation. People want to hear this information. And by the way, I can speak for myself, I’m stuck at home. We’re all stuck at home. The only way you find out this information is to open up an app or go on the web. So you’ve got to be where people are looking.
Jet Tila: No one’s different than you. I want to know, if I’m eating somewhere, is it clean, is it safe? It takes you 30 seconds or a minute to shoot a very fun video of going, “Hey, guys. This is my PPE and this is the restaurant. Look how clean we are. Come on in.” I mean, it’s that engaging and that simple. Take that time, you know what I mean, to spread the word because online is really kind of the only way that you can tell your story.
Cliff Cate: Totally. Emily.
Emily Washcovick: I love that. Okay, you guys. Really quick question, I think, probably. Suggestions on how to save money without changing or compromising food quality.
Jet Tila: Man, ask every restaurateur [crosstalk 00:39:12].
Emily Washcovick: Okay. I shouldn’t have said [crosstalk 00:39:13].
Josh Kopel: Right, right.
Emily Washcovick: I teed it up bad.
Jet Tila: I will take a stab. Nicole [inaudible 00:39:19], thank you for the question. I’m always asking myself, in every operation that I’m involved in, is what are we promising and are we hitting that expectation? And there always are ways to find efficiencies in between that question and that answer. So if I’m not sacrificing food because I’m promising the best of the best, then can I find it in packaging? What are the costs that … Where can I find it? If it’s a faster food, which I’m involved in, as well, am I doing the best in my competitive set or better? If I’m already bettering, are there efficiencies and some cost savings there, as well?
Jet Tila: Being a restaurateur, as we all know, you’ve got to swallow your pride because the bottom line is extremely important. And if it’s not to you, then good luck to the longevity in this business, but I think there’s always ways to find efficiencies if you can swallow some pride and have a very open-minded way to look at your business from the outside in. That’s a broad answer, but it will help some.
Josh Kopel: Thanks, Jet. And I would say the other side of that coin is, once you’ve done all of that, if you’re still not making enough money, maybe it’s time to raise prices. I think that there’s so much fear around raising prices or pricing yourself out of the market, but as we move on into this new word, this post-pandemic era, I would hope that we would price in a way that we make a healthy profit and that we’re able to provide subsidized healthcare and that we’re able to make sure that our team has what they need in order to be able to survive and that we do, too.
Josh Kopel: A story from my own life, I opened a fried chicken concept, fast casual, called South City Fried Chicken. And we were rated by LA Weekly the best fried chicken sandwich in LA. And it was and we charged $16 for it. And a year and a half after we opened, we closed it down because we priced ourselves out of the market, but that was what it was. I wasn’t willing to sell it at a loss. I wasn’t willing to sell it at a break even rate. And the biggest evolution in my professional life has been that I’ve become more afraid of doing bad work or I’ve become more afraid of working myself to death with no opportunity for profitability than I have in actually closing the concept. So I would say that there are some compromises that we should probably not make anymore.
Jet Tila: I’m going to jump in really quickly, brass tax stuff. Are you talking to landlords to lower rent? Right? Are you going to every single vendor? Are you going to every single service and saying, “Hey, times are tough?” Are you running a menu mix constantly? Are you doing a competitive set analysis weekly? Again, it might not be … Yeah, there’s so many things to look at as a restaurateur. I don’t want to ignore anyone.
Jet Tila: So Ted, pet peeves; bloggers … I’m not going to give you three, but using someone’s clout to try to get a free meal, that pisses me off. That’s just me. I’m not [inaudible 00:42:40] for Yelp or anyone here. And John, Western New York 10 o’clock mandate shutdown, how do I get through New Years? A message; tell your audience to get your orders in early. Offer something great for New Years. Push it really aggressively. Give them value and tell them to get there early. I just want to make sure I got the other ones that I read. You know what I mean?
Emily Washcovick: Yeah. No, you’re good. And I think there was actually one question that came in during the conversation that we weren’t able to address. So we can do that one now, as well. They were asking about getting connected to other catering companies. So they’ve been in the industry for a long time and they wanted to take opportunity of slow time now to book a meeting with like-minded catering companies all over the nation. I know you guys have done collaborations and things like that, so maybe any advice on how they could get something started in the catering industry?
Jet Tila: Pounding pavement, man. It’s real. Doing your homework on Yelp and LinkedIn and social and reaching out and forming relationships. That’s one way to do it. Go ahead, guys. Sorry.
Josh Kopel: I would say I agree. It’s pressing flesh. It’s a one-to-one relationship. Podcasters reach out and they always ask, “How did you get this guest on the show or that guest on the show?” And it’s the same answer for everyone; begging. It is about creating an authentic relationship. When I reached out to Jet, it’s not like I sent him a form email. I was like, “This is what I’m doing. This is why I think you would be great for it. This is why it would matter to the audience,” and it resonated with him. And I think that the same is true in B2B sales. The difficult thing about B2B is you’re not trying to reach millions of people. You’re trying to reach hundreds of people. So look at that as a strategic advantage and reach out one-to-one and say, “Listen, I love what you’re doing. You did these things. I think they’re great. I think I can add value in this way. Let me know if you want to talk about it.” It’s a longer process, but it’s far more fruitful.
Jet Tila: I’m going to flip it, too, guys. As a brand, small, medium, large, I also don’t like to say no to opportunities, any media opportunities; podcasts, “Hey, can I shoot here without some crazy, giant fee?” I mean, I don’t say no to a lot of things that make sense. Sometimes, even if I’m on the fence, if I’ve got the time, I’m going to say yes because you don’t know who’s going to see your business, when, how, and they’re going to get a warm fuzzy from it or not and these all translate to potential clients, et cetera.
Emily Washcovick: We do have a few other questions that rolled in. What should we do about a disgruntled employee that’s spread a rumor we were closing permanently and it’s negatively affected our business? I would assume you guys have dealt with disgruntled employees in a variety of capacities. Maybe you can speak to this directly?
Jet Tila: Yeah. A, tell your story on your platform. B, this is where you can use bloggers or digital media because the first thing they’re going to do is … I’m just going to use my name as an example so I don’t put anyone out there. Jet Tila closing on Google. So if you have posts titled, “I’m Jet Tila and I’m not closing,” or I’m going on Josh’s show and saying … Make sure you’re titling things that you put out correctly because the algorithms are always looking for combinations of words. So use those words to your advantage, but tell your story, engage, fight back in a nice way. And I think that’s how I’ve done it in the past.
Josh Kopel: It’s great advice. And to build on that, we live in this 24-hour news cycle. So when you look at publications like Eater, they’re constantly looking for more content. And to go back to our interview, Jet, you used to write the articles about yourself for the other publications. “How many words do you need?” “I need a thousand words.” “Okay, I’ll have that to you tomorrow.” You can build your own online reputation off doing the heavy lifting for others.
Jet Tila: People are busy, team. So yeah, to Josh’s point, one big piece of advice I give young people is, you know what, they want quotes, they want stories. You write your narrative, you hand it to them. Most likely, a lot of people are going to copy and paste and embellish here and there, but you really have an opportunity to write your own narrative with digital media and traditional media.
Josh Kopel: And somebody will pick up a story about a restaurateur that’s struggling, that’s being taken under by a disgruntled employee. Again, your story has power. Your vulnerability has power.
Emily Washcovick: Very important. Okay. Two really good questions I think we can close out on. The first one is about cities facing severe restrictions. What tactics have you seen that have changed political minds to help restaurants operate safely? Any insight on that at all?
Jet Tila: Wow, big one. Really, really big one. Right? I would just say … I don’t know. Again, as a brand and also as a person, it’s a very conscious decision for me to not polarize. So I think you can tell your story, to Cliff’s and Josh’s point. Vulnerability is good. Going all out, one way or the other, can polarize. And I think, as brands, be careful when you do so, but again, pick up the phone and call your local representatives. Send emails, rally people. There’s a right way to do it and I absolutely would encourage that.
Emily Washcovick: Something I would jump on with quick, just from my perspective, I know a lot of the state restaurant associations that I work with are doing a lot in the policy and political communication space. So maybe even just connecting with or reaching out with them. For Illinois, as well as a few other states I work with, they have a ton of templates that you, as a restaurateur, can use so that you’re not having to spend so much time writing what your experience is. You can kind of fill in the very pertinent spaces that apply to your business, but get that same language that has been effective in the past. That would just be some of my advice. Anything you want to add, Josh, before I go to the last question?
Josh Kopel: The only thing I would add is that, though you can’t control the way the city chooses to interact with you, you can control how you interact with your base. And if you reach out and you say, “We have been shut down completely. All we have is delivery and takeout. Our goal is to sell 100 meals in the next four days,” and you have a running ticker and you let them know how they’re doing it, you incentivize them through swag or a gift card for a future date to share those posts online, you can galvanize your base. If we have learned nothing through this process, it’s that the American people love independent restaurants and they want to see them succeed. So people vote with their money. Give them a reason to vote for you.
Emily Washcovick: Everyone, I’m just going to give you a time warning. It’s about five minutes to the top of the hour. We are going to send the recording of this out. So if you need to jet, you’ll be able to see the end. I want to give you guys this last question about a Mongolian grill concept that was very much experience-based, but I also want you both to be able to close out with how you’re feeling about 2021 and if it’s positive, something you’re excited for.
Emily Washcovick: So before we get to that, this is just a really experience-based restaurant, which I think a lot of you can probably identify with. Guests want that hands-on experience, it sounds like, and they’ve tried a few different things, but are getting a lot of disappointment and rejection, saying it’s just not the same. Any insights around maybe working around that or creating a better message that oversights what those people have been saying, maybe a new experience that you can get them to rejuvenate?
Jet Tila: Yeah. I think the first thing you can do, potentially, is create that experience digitally. Right? There’s a fine line, though, because if you don’t have a lot of tools, like good cameras or lighting, you know what I mean, it can feel hokey. So be thoughtful about crafting an online experience, an audiovisual experience. And then maybe, with certain concepts, simplify because there’s certain concepts that don’t translate well to digital ordering. Find a way to simplify where you still can create an experience because I ordered pho the other day and instead of … the restaurant traditionally had 20 options. They went digital and they paired it down to eight and they made that experience a little more seamless and they still created variety. And I think those are opportunities.
Emily Washcovick: That’s a great example. Josh, anything you want to add? Otherwise, hit me with your 2021 feelings.
Josh Kopel: I don’t have the answers, but I know that your customers do. And so one thing that has served me really, really well at Preux & Proper in creating that product market fit was that we would do in-person, but now you could set up a Zoom call with your most engaged customers and let them give you the answers. Give them each a $25 gift card for 25 minutes of their time. Let them give you the answers because they understand your brand as much as you do and they want to see you survive. So they’ll tell you what resonates with them, but what I have found time and time again is it’s your audience that has all of the answers that you’re seeking.
Jet Tila: That’s a great point. 2021, I feel that there really is some light here at the end of this tunnel with the vaccines that are rolling out. So six months, three months, but until then, do and try to implement all the things that the five of us have been talking about, the four of us, about are you optimizing, are you reaching everyone you can be, are you engaging where you can be, are you using all the free tools that are out there or the tools that don’t cost a lot of money? Latter 2021 is going to be great for all of us that are still here and that’ll continue deep probably into 2023, but again, on the backside of this pandemic, we’re going to have a huge amount of pent-up demand. And be sure you’re in the right mode to leverage that.
Emily Washcovick: I think that’s great advice. Before we close out, I just want to let you guys know that this event could not have happened without your submitted questions. We really did appreciate you taking the time to give those to us and we’re looking forward to doing so many more of these educational connections between restaurateurs, operators, and other experts in the space. So keep your eyes peeled for that. Cliff, anything you want to send folks with before we sign off?
Cliff Cate: My big point is these social channels that you see up for Jet and Josh and Yelp Restaurants, if you’re not already subscribed, they’re constantly doing what they’re preaching today and giving back. So a lot of great continued benefit in following both of these guys.
Emily Washcovick: Well, thank you guys so much for joining us. You will be getting a followup email with the recording, as well as a few other resources and takeaways that we talked about on the call that might be helpful for you. Jet, Josh, thank you so much for making the time to be here today. Your expertise is really invaluable and this event could not have happened without you. All of you on the line, I hope you hang in there, stay strong, and have good holiday seasons. Try to take some time for yourself and remember to honor yourself in this incredibly challenging time. Hang in there and let us know if there’s anything we can do to help make your year a little bit better. Bye for now.
Jet Tila: Bye.
