Changing Your Mind About Change: A Chat with Entrepreneur’s Jason Feifer

EMILY: I’m Emily Washcovick, Yelp’s Small Business Expert. Behind the Review features conversations with business owners and customers who wrote one of their Yelp reviews. In our discussions, we talk about lessons they’ve learned that can be used by other small businesses to improve their own reviews…and their bottom line.

Occasionally, I also talk to industry experts who have additional insights into things like customer experience, small business technology, or general advice for running a successful small business. Today, I’m talking to one of my favorite people, Jason Feifer, editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, and a fountain of information that can really help business owners make the most of their products or services.

EMILY: To kick us off, Jason, why don’t you start by introducing yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

JASON: Great. Hello, I’m Jason Feifer. I am the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, author of a book called Build for Tomorrow, and I make a whole bunch of other stuff and I have found this place for myself as someone who helps people identify new opportunities, whether that’s like a big new opportunity, like a massive change, or just something is shifting in your life and you’re trying to figure out how to see it as a positive and that comes out of me spending years and years talking to just the most impressive entrepreneurs.

People whose names you’ve never heard of, and people whose names you definitely have. And discovering that the thing that drives success for all of them is adaptability. And I became very interested in how that happens, how people can learn to be more adaptable, and then how they can identify new opportunities for themselves.

EMILY: What I love so much about your work is you really do talk to people in all different industries, all different business sizes and scales, and you’re back on the road traveling too, promoting your book. What’s that been like? Seeing people again in person and Oh, connecting with entrepreneurs?

JASON: Yeah. I mean, it’s the best. There’s nothing better. It is a very strange thing about my line of work, which I think  surely has parallels to anybody’s line of work, which is to say that you do a lot of things every day that can impact a lot of people, but you don’t often see those people being impacted, and so there’s something incredibly special about being in front of somebody and watching them engage with whatever it is that you’re providing them. In my weird version of this, I produce media that reaches millions of people, but I don’t see those millions of people. And so, it is strangely more enjoyable sometimes to fly somewhere to speak to a room full of people and then talk to them afterwards because I get to have instant feedback on what they liked and didn’t like, and I can watch their faces change as I say things.

And there is just nothing, nothing more important and better than really being with the people who you serve.

EMILY: I couldn’t agree more. And you know, our business owners, whether they’re in that solopreneur stage and they do get to interface a little more with their customers or if they’ve gotten to stepping outside and away from their business, it’s still fun sometimes to go  be in the shop, right?

Put yourself where your customers are and engage with them and I love the fact that when you meet all these people, you’re so good at retelling their stories in a way that motivates and changes people, and that’s why we wanted you on today. That’s our goal with Behind the Review, and I think we can dig into some great advice you’ve gotten from entrepreneurs over the years.

I want you to educate our listeners a little bit on being adaptable to change, and then really, I’m gonna make sure everyone follows you in all the places because I learn stuff all the time. On Instagram, from your newsletter. So we’re gonna make sure everyone knows how to stay in touch and keep listening to your stories.

JASON: Well, thank you.  You’re my hype woman. I appreciate it. I am.

EMILY: I’m a big fan. Sometimes I’ll be messaging, my colleague will like, okay, and then they just did this on the new show and he’s like, all right Emily, I get it. I should be listening to more episodes. Let’s do a fun rapid fire to start. What’s your favorite piece of advice from a famous person that my listeners probably know?

JASON: Sure. You know, it’s so funny because I talk most of the time to people, more like your listeners, people who are just running really great businesses, but every month or so, I get to chat with just an exceptionally famous person, and those make for great stories.

So my favorite piece of advice from a very famous person, and I’ve got a lot of it, came from Ryan Reynolds who told me. We were talking about the shift he’s made in his own career from acting to starting Maximum Effort, which is a very successful advertising agency, taking ownership of things like Mint Mobile and Aviation Gin.

And he told me what he learned in that transition, which is to be good at something, you have to be willing to be bad. Those are Ryan’s words, and it made me realize that too often we think that if we try something new and we are not immediately successful at it, then it is just not for us. We should give up.

We look around and we see people who are much better and we say, ah, I’m never gonna be like them. But the point that Ryan is making is that everyone is bad at first. Everybody. And so the difference maker isn’t whether or not you are good at the beginning of something, but rather whether or not you are able to tolerate being bad long enough to get good. And that’s a really, really helpful reframe of what it means to try something new. That’s such great learning.

EMILY: And I remember when I read that story, I was thinking to myself, “Wow, that’s so true.” But to hear someone who you maybe only see the successes of say that almost makes it ring more true for what we’re dealing with in our day-to-day lives.

Right? Yeah. And maybe the load that a business owner is carrying compared to what they think, someone with that many businesses and that much influence is dealing with. Talk to me about the biggest surprise in advice or takeaway you’ve had when interviewing someone.

JASON: Well, the most surprising piece of advice anyone gave me didn’t come out of an interview. It was just a conversation that I had very early in my career, which was when I started as a community newspaper reporter. So I was just writing local news, local newspaper in North Central Massachusetts, and I had this habit, which was that if I was talking with, let’s say the local mayor, and the local mayor is telling me that the city just put out an RFP for something. I would write in my notebook, “RFP,” and I would circle it and I would write a question mark, and that was so that I could go back to the office later and try to figure out what he was talking about they didn’t know.

RFP by the way, is a request for proposal, and this was because I was afraid of revealing that I didn’t know what he was talking about, because here I am trying to be this professional, absorbing and repeating information that he’s saying to the public. I’m supposed to be a filter for the public.

And if I don’t know what he’s talking about, then how can he possibly trust me to tell me anything? And so I was hiding this, but then I was talking to an older reporter George, and George told me, don’t be afraid to ask what you think are dumb questions, because first of all, someone would much rather you get it right than guess and get it wrong.

They want to be helpful. If you don’t know what an RFP is, they want to explain it also, so asking these kinds of questions shows your thoroughness that you’re not going to let something go by ‘cause you don’t understand it. And that’s a value that doesn’t make you look stupid. That makes you look smart.

And then also, frankly, if you ask really simple questions of things that people spend a lot of time with, they like it because you’re engaging at a deep level with something that they care about. Not a lot of people care about RFPs, but if you’re the mayor, you probably have a lot of thoughts on them.

And so being asked about it is not really a bad thing. And this is something that I’ve just learned throughout my career. I took that to heart, and I do always ask the dumb questions now, and I’ve also just found that often the things that I thought were a detriment could be an asset if only seen a little differently.

EMILY: I knew I was gonna have to mute myself during this interview because I was just gonna be laughing when you tell all of your anecdotes, you know the episode of Problem Solvers that we dropped on behind the review where you were talking about the angry email. Yeah. My absolute favorite part of that entire episode is when you say, Well, don’t use it for hyperbole.

Like your reaction to the person is just so authentic and that’s what I love about. Following you in, like listening to your stories is all of us are emotional about the stuff we’re dealing with, right? Mm-hmm. , whether it’s your business, your customers, your job, whatever it is for each individual person.

And so to see that enthusiasm shared by others, I think it makes people enthusiastic for their own stuff too. And that’s like a lesson, right? Share your enthusiasm with others too. I love that.

I wanna talk now about the origin story of Behind the Review, ‘cause first, I was gonna have you tell us about a favorite local business experience and then I was like, wait, I know Jason because of a favorite local business experience.

Yeah, sure do. So tell me about how you met Jay, the locksmith, and then how I met you.

JASON: So this was a few years ago, so you may have to fill in some details if I forget. So Entrepreneur, fun fact, doesn’t have an office anymore. We went fully remote, but pre pandemic we did. We had an office in midtown Manhattan, and so one day I show up at the office  and I had an office,  like with a door and a couch and stuff.

I went to open the door to my office and I couldn’t get in, and  it had been locked. It was the first time that had ever happened. And I didn’t have a key to my own office. It was just, it was never locked. The idea of having a key didn’t occur to me and  I searched around everywhere and nobody seemed to have a key to this office.

Then we went through the “what are you gonna do next?” Of course, every colleague gets together and everyone has an idea and now we’re sliding credit cards through trying to open this thing and just nobody could get into my office and we spent a while doing this. So eventually I realized, well, I think I have to call a locksmith to get into this office.

I went to Yelp and I searched for a locksmith.  I pressed a button that you could explain better than me, where I just started getting a bunch of people who were all responding to my need all at the same time. And most of them,  all cited me. They dashed off an email and they cited me some very low cost, and they said this would be super easy.

And then there was Jay, a locksmith, who sent me an email with complete sentences and asked me for more information and like a photo of it. And so I did that, I gave him more information. I sent him a photo and he cited me a price that was considerably more expensive than everybody else, and then 15 minutes later, followed up with another email that he had called somebody to find out about the mechanics of this, and I think it was gonna be even more expensive, but because Jay also seemed to be the only guy to actually spend time understanding my problem, I quickly concluded that everyone else was probably BSing me and that they were gonna show up and then charge me more, and it was gonna be this strange, uncomfortable encounter. And so I went with Jay and the experience was great. Jay was super friendly. I don’t think Jay actually showed up. I think somebody who works for him showed up and actually unlocked the door.

But I got to talking with him after and he told me about this industry that he knows very well and he knows what generally happens, which is exactly this. Everyone cites these very low prices and then they’re just gonna screw you  when they show up and that he always maintained that honesty, even if it’s slower and even if it looks more expensive at the start, even though I would bet that in the end I probably paid Jay less money than I might’ve had to pay some of these other people. That was the path forward because that was about trust and trust drives referrals and drives very good reviews on Yelp.

I wrote about that experience in the magazine and then Jay and I were talking and we were spitballing ideas and the idea of a podcast about Yelp reviews came up and then something, something, something, something. And Emily, you and I were on the phone talking about making this, and here we are.

To me, the wonderful thing about this, aside from just that Jay is running his business the correct way and thinking about consumer trust above all else, is that once a relationship begins, you just cannot begin to imagine where it’s going to go. But that if you really are people-centric, you can pretty well guarantee that it’ll grow far beyond its original intent.

EMILY: People-centric point, that’s Jay to a T and that is the kernel of truth for so many of the businesses we feature, right? They prioritize a relationship with their customers, listening to their customers, honesty, transparency, all those things. And that’s really good to keep in mind I think for our business owners, being your authentic self and having a culture or a brand that your employees also carry out can  have that lasting impression that maybe makes you memorable, reviewable, all those wonderful things. Now I wanna pivot us and talk about Build for Tomorrow and adapting for change, because I know you said you don’t want this to be a whole promo, but Build for Tomorrow…

JASON: And change in general, which is, which is just to be clear, which is my book, Build for Tomorrow is the title of my book.

EMILY: Yeah, just thank you. It helps business owners, no matter what kind of change they’re going through in their business, small, large, in their life, personal relationships. This book is so useful. I’ve clearly read it more than once. Thank you. I’m like exposing myself as a real super fan, Jason.

JASON: I really love, I love superfans, so you, you can’t out super fan me.

EMILY: The thing about this book is it’s also easy to consume, and that’s why today we can break it down so easily with some tangible takeaways that people can do if they just wanna listen.

But also it’s the kind of book you could read for 10 or 15 minutes in the morning with your coffee and really take some stuff away. So I’m a big proponent of the book, but start with setting the stage for our listeners and really normalizing why change is hard for us. And then break down those four phases that you see all change encompassing.

JASON: Sure. So, couldn’t be more timely of a subject, obviously, because everyone’s business and lives are going through this constant cycle of change. It’s not like things were ever permanent before the pandemic, but it certainly feels like ever since we’ve just been swinging back and forth from one unexpected situation to the next, and that’s required people to really stay on their toes, to be constantly thinking about what it is they and the people they serve need, not just today, but tomorrow too, and that can be exhausting. And to normalize it, let’s just be clear that your instinct, I know cuz it’s mine, it’s everybody’s, is to equate change with loss. To say that if something is changing in our lives or our business, the first thing we’re gonna do is we’re gonna think about the things that we are familiar with and comfortable with that are no longer gonna be as much of a mainstay, as reliable as they used to be, and that feels like loss. And then we’re gonna extrapolate the loss. We’re gonna say, well, because I lose this, I’m gonna lose that, and because I lost that, I’m gonna lose that other thing. And suddenly we’re really spiraling out into panic, which I’ll pick up on in a second.

But what’s important to know is that that is not you. That’s being human. Decades of psychological research have confirmed what’s called loss aversion theory, which is that we are programmed to avoid loss more than we are to focus on gain. So in some kind of situation,  in which things are changing, our immediate instinct is gonna just to be figuring out how to protect against loss.

That’s fine. Loss is bad. We don’t want loss, but we also have to understand that if that is our instinct, we should recognize it and then do the thing that is actually gonna drive growth for us, which often may not be protecting loss. We spend so much energy debating whether or not something should happen.

When it has already happened, just it’s not a good use of energy. Instead, we need to think, well this has happened, so what am I gonna do about it? And so what I’ve recognized in talking to entrepreneurs  for years and years now is that everybody goes through these four phases of change. The first I just said panic, and then you get to adaptation or you start to look at what is available to you, new normal, where you build a new foundation, you have some new familiarity, and then wouldn’t go back this moment where I say I have something so new, invaluable that I wouldn’t wanna go back to a time before I had it.  The starting point there in panic, I think.

And what I’ve found is, and look, it’s just to be clear, everybody, everybody goes through that. Everybody, doesn’t matter how successful you are. Some people, the panic won’t be as visible. And the reason for that is because they’re using that panic to propel them forward to think, oh no, what am I missing?

What is changing? What do I have to be on top of? Where there’s other people are using that panic to say, oh no, I need to clinging tightly to the thing that came before. I want to help move people towards that first vision where the panic propels you.

EMILY: When you’re talking about all of us experiencing that panic phase, but the difference being how we maybe handle that energy and re-channel it. I think entrepreneurs are uniquely positioned, which you point out in your book,  if you know ‘your why’ as an entrepreneur, you can adapt faster.

You can gravitate towards those core values or things that are key to what’s grounding you. Talk about that a little bit and maybe some success stories where by sticking to what’s true and not focusing so much on what you’re losing, people were able to propel faster.

JASON: Yeah. So it really comes down to what are you shaping your identity around?

Are you identifying, and this is so natural, everyone does this. Are you identifying with the product of your work or the role that you occupy? Because if you are, then as soon as those things change, and I stress as soon as because they will, you don’t feel just a sense of change in your work. You feel a sense of loss of identity.

That’s very scary. It’s the difference between me saying I’m a magazine editor, for example, which is me identifying with the tasks and the role or something else. What else could that be? I have a whole chapter that goes into a big exercise on this, but  the payoff of it is that what I recommend is that you come up with what is really a mission statement for yourself.

That is, short, couple  words, single sentence, starts with I, every word carefully selected because it is not anchored to something that is easily changeable. So for me, it’s not, I am a magazine editor. It is, I tell stories in my own voice. Why? Well, because consider it. I don’t own Entrepreneur magazine.

It’s not my business. I could get a call at any time from my boss who has my phone number. He could fire me. And that means that I’m one phone call away from losing my identity. If my identity is, I’m a magazine editor, but I tell stories of my own voice, can’t take that away from me. I can’t get fired from that.

And what’s wonderful about that is that once I have that definition of self, it allows me to recognize how many other opportunities and avenues fulfill that mission so that there are infinite ways for me to do business. Now  this works personally, but it works in business too. I remember talking to a guy, Greg Fleischman, who’s CEO of Foodstirs, and Foodstirs is a baking mix company.

They were a baking mix company, I should say, because that’s what they started out with was they made baking mixes. Sarah Michelle Geller is a co-founder, Buffy. This is complicated, but they were going through a big change. They were gonna roll out a whole bunch of new product lines.

They’re gonna like, kind of radically transform the business. And then Covid came along just beforehand and like the market completely shifted. So I was asking him if it was a bummer to have to kind of scrap a bunch of these plans and do these things that they didn’t really originally wanna do.

And he said, It wasn’t a bummer because it goes back to why do you start a business to begin with? And our mission, I’m just quoting him directly cuz I remember these words. He says, our mission is to bring joy to people with upgraded sweet baked goods. That’s what it’s all about. Now take a listen to that.

Our mission is to bring joy to people with upgraded sweet baked goods. Is there ever a time in which people will not want joy? No. Is there ever a time in which people won’t want sweet things? No. So, okay, fine. They started with baking mixes, but if the entire world wakes up one day and says, I hate baking mixes,  these are the worst things in the world.

Well, okay. Foodstirs has a problem, but they don’t have a permanent problem because their goal, their mission is not to make baking mixes. Their goal is to bring joy to people with upgraded sweet baked goods. So how else can they do that? How else do people find joy in something like that?

When you think of it like that, you stop anchoring yourselves to one way of doing business, and you start realizing that there are infinite possibilities for you to express the thing that is most core to you.

EMILY: Yeah, and I mean, that whole story just makes me think about any small business delving into a new revenue stream.

I meet with business owners all the time and I ask them a few key questions like, describe your business to me and what you do or sell. Who are your core audiences and how do you market to them? And by asking some of those simple questions, they can come up with new revenue streams. But trying something like that requires being willing to fail, you know?

And. Bringing change into the business by your own choice, right? Not necessarily reacting to things that are happening to you, but enacting change in your business. And you write about that in the book that sometimes that can be like the best antidote to change is to be the one who instigates change.

JASON: Yeah. Change before you must is what I call it, change before you must. Because the argument is you could either wait for change to come to you and then you’re scrambling and just trying to put out the pain. Which means that you’re not gonna be making the most sound decisions, or you could do things on your own terms, which means making difficult decisions that don’t seem forced, which is a weird thing to do.

I’ve talked to lots of people who have made big changes to their business, who have laid people off, and nobody was forcing them to do it. But the problem was that they were looking at what’s happening in their business, and they’re realizing that if I continue to do what I’m doing, the next three years will be good.

And then after that, we will be dead, because something is changing in the marketplace because I see a competitor who’s too close because whatever, whatever, whatever. And you have to understand that I picked this little framework up from my friends. Adam and Jordan Borstein have a consultancy called Pen Name Consulting, which is what’s the difference between a door and an engine?

Are you looking at a door or an engine? The visual that they offer is, Imagine you’re driving down the street in a car, and the door falls off. Is that a problem? Yes. But can you still drive? You can. Car still goes. Now imagine you’re driving down the street and then the engine falls off.

Can you drive? No, the ride is over. So you have to understand. What are you looking at when you’re looking at a problem? Are you looking at a door or are you looking at an engine? Because if it’s a door, then you can make small tweaks on the margins. You can try to improve the product, whatever it is. But if you’re looking at a problem and it’s an engine and three to five years that engine is going to fall off the car, then you have to start now. You have to. There’s just no other option because otherwise you will just wait until you’re dead.

EMILY: I wanna close this topic out by bringing it back to reviews, cuz that’s what we always do on Behind the Review. Mm-hmm . And when I was looking through some learnings in the book, one of the biggest connections I could make is when a business owner gets criticism online.

And their natural tendency is to try to remove it or get it taken down or off. That’s being stuck in the past.  And not wanting to maybe be open to hearing what other people think, which could lead to change. Yeah, and that’s where I think some of that fear comes from. They don’t want feedback that might make them realize they need to change something.

You give really good advice about listening and being responsive when people are sharing things with you, whether it’s about your business, your work, whatever that may be. Talk to me a little bit about being open to hearing what people have to say and taking that and digesting it, and maybe deciding if a change is necessary or not, because all feedback shouldn’t result in a change in your business.

JASON: Right. No, not all feedback should, you can’t do everything. But I think that you need to take seriously anybody who is saying something in earnest, even if it’s angry because they had an experience and that experience was real to them, and maybe all you have to do is just show them that they were heard and they will calm down.

But maybe their experience actually echoes lots of other people’s experience. And maybe this is just the only person who told you, and  it’s just so vitally important to hear people out. Hard as it is, and it can be very hard. And I totally get that and I get it myself with people who reach out to me all the time about work that I do and that they think it should be done differently or they didn’t like this article or whatever the case is.

I always respond to all of them. I respond to everybody who’s reasonable, I should say. If somebody is, just a blow torch. And there’s no calming, there’s no purpose to this. I don’t engage, cuz that’s not gonna go anywhere.

But are they angry but reasonable?  Let’s have a little dialogue. And what I find is that sometimes I’m able to talk them off the ledge. Sometimes they say something that’s very valid criticism.  I’ll tell you it’s funny. In a way, you and I talking, having this kinda conversation right now comes out of, I mean, you know, there’s no singular moment in anybody’s career path, but this was a sh one of the ones that shaped me was that at the very beginning of me being Editor in Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, like it just started and  my background is in media, so I didn’t have  a deep well, Business advice to share it with people.

And I was very afraid of that. It just felt like a point of shame.  So now I have this editor’s letter, this letter that opens up the every issue of the magazine, big photo of my face on it… and I was like, what am I gonna do in this editor’s letter?

I didn’t want it to just be a table of contents and essay form. That’s what most editors do. I was like, I’m gonna do something different. I’m gonna bring real value here. This is gonna be an, this is gonna be some kind of essay each time. But what? And I thought, well, okay, the thing that I know is press, I know how, what, how press thinks.

And I know that a lot of entrepreneurs are interested in press. So what if I do this thing where every editor’s letter is actually just me explaining why we made the decisions that we made about who to put in the magazine and that’ll be instructive to people. And so I did that and I did the first issue and I got a bunch of nice feedback.

People emailed me, oh, it’s so interesting. And then I did it again, the next issue. And it talked about a little bit of other things like how to get a reporter’s attention. And I got fewer nice emails and then I did it a third issue. And then I started getting angry emails.

It was interesting cuz the first time it showed up, I dismissed it. But then the second and third time I said, wait a second. Because they were awesome version of, Hey Mr. Fancy Pants editor guy. Like all you talk about is how people can get your attention as if you are the most important thing in this magazine.

And you know what? Some of us are running our businesses and we don’t care about getting an entrepreneur magazine. And there’s all this. The only thing you seem interested. And, so I started writing back to them to understand where they were coming from. Cuz I wrote back and I was like, look,  I hear you.

It’s interesting cuz people often ask me about how to get press and it’s just, it’s a subject that constantly comes up and I thought I was doing a reader service and one of them wrote back and they said, I totally get that. And that is something that a lot of entrepreneurs are interested in, but you have to remember that this is the editor’s letter.

It’s the first thing that people see in the magazine. To me as a reader, it sets the tone for the magazine, for what the magazine’s about and for what you are about as the guy who’s the face of it. And all you’re talking about is press. So it seems like you’re not really interested in anything else. And I realized he’s right.

Even if I was doing something because I thought that the reader was interested in it, and frankly they are, because people ask me about press all the time. This was not the venue for it. This was an opportunity to do something else, to push myself into uncomfortable places, to understand how to relate to people in different ways and to ultimately be the thing that people expected me to be in this space, and therefore more broadly, to be the person who people expected me to be in this role.

And that was a hard, hard thing to learn. And it took a lot of time. It took years. The result is basically the kind of thing that you hear in this conversation right now is me having absorbed these ways of thinking about entrepreneurs and figuring out my place in it. How does it connect to the things that I do, but also how do I just understand how to make coherent sense of everything that I’m hearing?

Because I have a unique place, which is to be able to hear people. And find patterns in what they say and figure out what’s meaningful. So let me live in that and that defined what I would describe as my business, my career.  I run Entrepreneur, but I also do all sorts of other things on the side that are just mine.

And it all came out of, in a way that could, that user feedback. And  I wouldn’t have gotten anywhere had I not listened.

EMILY: What a great story to conclude us. Now let’s tell everyone where they can stay in touch with you. Newsletter, website, social. Give me everything.

JASON: Okay Well, I’ll give you some because what I’ve found is that if you give people too many things and they don’t remember anything, that’s just a good business fact. So I’ll tell you this one. We already talked about my book Build for Tomorrow. I would love for you to check that out. I think it’s a great resource. Also, I write a newsletter that is called One Thing Better,  it is exactly right there in the name each week. It’s one thing that you can do better to build a career or company that you love and, uh, you can find that at one thing better dot email. That is an actual address. I bought it solely for the purpose of being able to speak it on podcasts. One thing better.email. It will auto forward to the newsletter signup page. And then otherwise,  reach out to me, however you find me, Jason Pfeiffer, I’m easily found on all the social media platforms and I am very responsive. So if you have thoughts, let me know.

EMILY: Thank you so much for taking the time to join us. It feels like a celebration a hundred episodes in, and you’re the whole reason Behind the Review is here. So thanks for being the impetus to the show, and thanks for joining us today.

JASON: Oh, well thank you. I may have been involved in the start, but you wouldn’t have gotten to a hundred episodes if it wasn’t for you and your commitment to small business owners and how to help them be greater. So thank you for all the work you do.

EMILY: Thanks, Jason.